“For centuries we have been spoon-fed by our teachers, by our authorities, by our books, our saints. We say, ‘Tell me all about it—what lies beyond the hills and the mountains and the earth?’ and we are satisfied with their descriptions, which means that we live on words and our life is shallow and empty. We are second hand people. We have lived on what we have been told, either guided by our inclinations, our tendencies, or compelled to accept by circumstances and environment. We are the result of all kinds of influences and there is nothing new in us, nothing that we have discovered for ourselves; nothing original, pristine, clear.
Jiddu Krishnamurthi in Freedom From The Known (1969)
Comment:
It’s heresy to say this, but K has never appealed to me all that much….
What he says is perfectly true, and as far as I can tell, in the tradition of advaita (non-dualism), but his criticism of bourgeois thinking and imagery only goes so far with me. I agree upto the point where he talks about “flow,”much as Bruce Lee does in my next post, but when he attacks all concepts and conceptualization (maybe I am misunderstanding him?) — he loses me. It’s not concepts that are the problem but identification with concepts — or am I wrong?
Concepts and memory may be the kingdom of death….. but don’t they make up half of a whole? We exist with one foot in death.
Gurdjieff is closer to me on all this…
I personally have been fascinated by JK for the past 20 years. From what I understand neither are his criticisms limited to the bourgeois way, nor are his observations limited to criticisms. Yet he does find fault with life as most of us generally lead it and he rarely says anything more concrete.
The falsehood in memory, concepts, and knowledge is not a matter of argument or opinion, teaching or learning. One cannot know the falsehood of knowing. It is simply a matter of seeing the truth of it or not seeing it. I might have said more, but I don’t see it.
No – I do accept that there is a type of falsehood involved in all conceptualization – false, that is, in relation to the actual experience. But you could say that about any kind of most speech – K explaining himself is also false, as is every other reportage….but does that mean reportage or analysis has no other value?
I am not sure that I understand why he calls this bourgeois….it seems to me to have nothing especially class related in it…
He is not talking about false consciousness in the Marxist sense, is he?
I haven’t read him very extensively, so the misunderstanding is all mine, I’m sure..
“… K explaining himself is also false …”
Yes, if he is using memory or knowledge actively. No, if he is actually discovering the truth of what he is saying afresh as he speaks.
Knowledge and knowledge based analysis are, of course, useful when understanding “static truths” like physical sciences, engineering, and I am guessing even some social sciences. JK limits himself to the understanding of one’s own mind, which involves a living “dynamic” truth. It does, however, have consequences on all human endeavors.
I do not know about consciousness in the Marxist sense. But JK’s observations are mostly on the human mind, irrespective of class, inclinations, or other social descriptors. Desire afflicts the poor and the rich, the monk and the mobster, the politician and the priest in similar ways.
OK…then I am with him there…if he is not dismissing static knowledge.
Of course, the dynamic-static analysis occurs in Pirsig too. I posted something which brought up a discussion of Pirsig a few days ago. You would like both his books. Do you know them?
I had to google Pirsig. I think I owned a copy of Zen … in high school and used it as a fashion statement. Never read a page. I have made a mental note to read the books. Aside: I find I’m quite like a fanatic, I have found my true God (JK) and there is no need for anything else. Which is ironic given JK’s vehement dislike for accepting authorities.
Yes- you are wrapped up in K. He IS a very attractive personality. But I prefer to take a bit here and there from different people and run with it….
At the end, it’s not K, but vegp reading K, right? So, finally, it should be just vegp…