V-Tech: Cho – fits of anger as a child, church suspected demons Updated 5/11

More details here about Cho’s interaction in church and an analysis (and criticism) of a 4/30 article in Newsweek describing bullying by rich members of a Christian youth group:

I am quoting the article in its entirety:

“It turns out Pastor K is the person Newsweek got this story from. He left the church almost two years before Cho graduated high school. In an interview published in various Korean language newspapers between April 18th and April 20th, Pastor K shared his experiences with Cho.

In this article dated April 19th, Pastor K says that Cho’s mother wanted him to join a Saturday youth group because she was concerned that he was too withdrawn and spending too much time playing video games. While at the youth group, Pastor K reports that he rarely spoke except to say “yes” or “no.”

But in this article from another Korean paper, Pastor K adds that Cho was picked on in the youth group though, as you’ll see, calling this “bullying” is a bit of a stretch. Here is the complete article translated into English [One of my wife’s co-workers agreed to translated it for me. I streamlined some of the wording]:

“When we watched his video manifesto explaining his reasons behind the massacre, all of our family said “that is not like Seung-Hui’. That’s because it was the first time we saw him talking in full sentences and not in pieces of words and because we were surprised to see him spitting out curses like bullets.”

As a Christian leader, I feel responsible when I see him cursing Christianity.According to the interview with Joongang Ilbo (Korean newspaper) on the 18th, Reverend K (age 50) — who taught Cho at the Korean Church in Centerville for 2 years beginning in 2000 when Cho was a 10th grader in High School in Fairfax County, VA — who wished to be remain anonymous, said “As a Christian leader, I feel responsible when I see him cursing Christianity. I am terribly sad.” The followings are excerpts from the interview:

– Have you seen Cho’s video?

“It was the first time I ever saw him so angry. I couldn’t believe it.”

– What was he like in the past?

“He was a loner. I never knew he could talk so fluently. In the past, he never spoke in sentences. If I asked him to pray, he usually didn’t say anything for at least a minute and then would say short sentences like “Let’s have a good time. Let’s be thankful.” Because he always had his mouth shut, even elementary school kids made fun of him. Some even pushed him a bit. So, often I told Seung-hui, “if you get annoyed by these little pranksters, why don’t you yell or get angry with them?” But his usual responses was to just nod and do nothing about it. Because of Cho’s inaction, teasing by some of the mischievous elementary age kids lasted for quite a while.

– Didn’t Cho’s behavior change as he came to church?

He was smart and quick to understand the biblical stories. But his understanding never materialized into faith. I’d say his faith was at about 20%. Every Saturday, I gave him a ride to our church so he could make friends his own age in the youth group. But he never got along with anyone. During snack time, he usually ate in the corner by himself.

– In his manifesto, Cho said ‘do you know how it feels to be insulted (or to suffer)?’ and showed his hostility toward the world….

When other kids made fun of him, he never reacted on the outside but perhaps he felt scorned and belittled inside. Among those whom I had to counsel not to bother Cho were some kids from rich backgrounds. Maybe these little things accumulated inside Cho’s mind for a long time and then exploded all at once.”

– Has he ever been rebellious in church?

No. However, once I recommended that his mom take Cho to see a doctor because he showed some autistic behavior. But his mom didn’t agree with my evaluation and refused to take him to the doctor. If Cho had received proper medical care from early stage, it’s possible this terrible thing might not have happened. I feel regretful for not persuading his mother more firmly at the time.”

So, according to Pastor K, Cho was indeed teased at his Saturday youth group, just as he was everywhere else. His pastor at the time was aware of it, took steps to shelter him from it and tried to get him to stand up for himself. The Newsweek story condenses all of this down into a single sentence that introduces the word bullying:

His parents turned to the church for help with his emotional problems, but he was bullied in his Christian youth group, especially by rich kids.

Is bullying what Cho really experienced in youth group?Is bullying what Cho really experienced in youth group? According to Pastor K he was teased and even pushed by some kids. That might sounds like bullying except for the fact that the kids involved were in elementary school. Cho was in 10th grade at the time. It’s not the image most people probably have in mind when they hear the word “bullying.” For me, that brings to mind a hefty kid who likes to hit people when they don’t hand over their lunch money, not a couple of 5th graders making wisecracks about a sophmore in high school.

It also appears that there were some wealthy kids who picked on Cho, but the pastor stepped in and told them to leave him alone. He wasn’t left to the mercy of these spoiled brats as the Newsweek piece suggests.

So here’s the real story. Cho was picked up and driven to a Saturday youth group so he could make friends, yet sat alone in the corner. He was protected from teasing by his pastor, but refused to protect himself from teasing by much younger kids. He was invited to join a Bible study; yet, until the manifesto appeared on TV no one had ever heard him utter more than a few words. His pastor recommended he be examined by a doctor but — possibly because of the shame associated with mental illness in Korean culture — his mother refused to take him.

Cho’s church made a sincere effort to reach out to him and help him fit in. For whatever reason, he was unable to respond. Perhaps he had a serious mental illness (schizophrenia has been suggested by some, autism by others). Perhaps he was physically or sexually abused by an adult, as his college writings seem to suggest. In either case, it’s hard to imagine what more Cho’s church could have done to help him.

Far from being just another part of the problem, church seems to be the only place Cho went where an adult stood up for him.A lot of people mocked and picked on Cho Seung-Hui. A few, in high school and college, reached out to him, including members of Tech’s Korean Campus Crusade chapter. But no one tried harder to reach out to Cho than the pastors at Centerville Korean Presbyterian Church. Evan Thomas’ story for Newsweek isn’t a lie since Cho was in fact picked on in his youth group, but it manages to mislead the reader about what really happened there. So far as we know, Pastor K was the only adult who attempted to teach Cho how to get along with others. Far from being just another part of the problem, church seems to be the only place Cho went where an adult stood up for him. That effort deserved a lot better treatement than Evan Thomas’ dismissive one-liner.

*************************

My Comment:

Fair enough. I think the detailed analysis of the Newsweek piece was warranted. Those sorts of throwaway comments in the major media deserve intense examination. They’re not always as innocuous as they might seem to some one who isn’t familiar with media framing tactics.

More:

A report on 5/5 reports that a bomb threat written on a flyer was found in a classroom the morning of 4/16 by a professor who handed it to the janitor. Note that the note was written in red ink; Ismail Ax was written on Cho’s arm in red ink too. But there is nothing else linking the note to Cho. The janitor described as tall Asian in a maroon cap, black shirt and cargo pants with something jingling on him.

More reporting on Cho in this profile of the onset of his problems in the Washington Post.

Key new points:

*Turns out that Cho exhibited fits of anger as a child, not just taciturnity, as we heard earlier.

*We also learn now that his mother turned to the church rather than to medicine for help. She went to several northern Virginia churches, especially after 2005. The Pastor of the One Mind Church in Woodbridge, Dong Cheol Lee, thought Cho’s behavior showed demon possession and tried to help but didn’t do so in time. Cho’s behavior seems to have got worse in 2005-06, which coincides with his visit to the health center.

*We learn that Cho hardly attended classes in his senior year and spent most of the time in front of the computer. This squares with what his neighbors in Virginia have said – that they hadn’t seen him for some time. Apparently, his behavior deteriorated in his senior year (that is, after his brief encounter with the health care system and – possibly – with medication).

This is a distinct departure from what he was like as a student in earlier years. This report has information that Cho was a math whiz who started out at V Tech by working all the time and trying hard to fit in. His declared major in 2003-04 was business information, but later (by 2005 probably) he changed to English.

That’s about when he started sliding. Hmmm…maybe Limbaugh had a point about the English department (only kidding!)

Something changed and changed drastically for the worse in 2005.

* He is said to have studied a text on Deviant Behavior in class in that last year, which may show he had some awareness of his problem. The class was held on the second floor of Norris Hall, where the shooting took place.

* What’s also interesting to me is how university officials are guarding his records, citing privacy laws. I am sure it’s going to be a major embarrassment for them to explain how Cho managed to avoid being flunked for such incompetent writing, non-attendance, and generally erratic and dangerous behavior.

All this reflects poorly on Virginia Tech, I’m afraid, however much people spin it. What a pity. Apparently, the school has a great engineering faculty. Too bad that the administration and security don’t seem to have matched up, at least in this instance

Note: the more I see the different pieces of this puzzle, the more I am inclined to think that although we have a person with psychological/psychiatric problems at the center of it, we also have some other influences at work here. I suspect we may find some kind of traumatic incident in 2005, or some authority figure’s influence coming to bear on him…

Now we have a couple of more hints why Norris was chosen: Cho took at least two classes that we know of on the second floor – one where he read about deviant behavior and another where he studied the Genesis story of Ishmael.

We also know he was a very bright math student, a whiz according to at least two reports. If he chose to go into business management at first, maybe it was because he wanted to be more socially acceptable to the affluent Virginian kids he envied or resented (if we go by what he said on his video).

Karan Grewal, his suite mate, was puzzled by that comment, though, noting that most of the students were middle class and on scholarship of some kind. I haven’t studied the demographics of the school, but looking through the list of victims I found that, as you would expect in a Virginian college, a lot of his victims were Virginia residents:

1. Leslie Sherman, sophomore history and international studies student from Springfield, Va.

2. Maxine Turner, 22, senior majoring in chemical engineering from Vienna, Va.

3. Mary Karen Read, 19, freshman from Annandale, Va.

4. Reema Joseph Samaha, 18, freshman from Centreville, Va

5. Erin Peterson, 18, of Chantilly, Va., an international studies major

6. Lauren Ashley McCain, 20, of Hampton, Va., freshman international studies major.

7. Henry J. Lee, also known as Henh Ly, 20, first-year student majoring in computer engineering from Roanoke, Va.

8. Rachael Hill, 18, of Glen Allen, Va.

9. Emily Jane Hilscher, 19-year-old freshman from Woodville, Va., majoring in animal and poultry sciences.

10. Matthew Gregory Gwaltney, 24, of Chester, Va., graduate student in civil and environmental engineering.

11. Austin Michelle Cloyd, sophomore international studies major and member of the honors program from Blacksburg, Va. Previously from Illinois.
12. Daniel Alejandro Perez Cueva, 21, of Peru, sophomore majoring in international studies. He also had lived in Woodbridge, Va.

13.Brian Roy Bluhm, 25, civil engineering graduate student from Stephens City, Va. He had previously lived in Iowa, Detroit and Louisville, Ky

14. Jarrett Lee Lane, 22, senior majoring in civil engineering from Narrows, Va

14/32 means that nearly half of his victims were Virginian residents or had moved there. (The rest were foreign born or were from close by (PA, NY or NJ).

Was this, in fact, an attack on the Hokies, as Pat Buchanan puts it? Or is this simply the usual proportion of locals you’d find in any college?

I am going to hold off commenting on the fact that this is yet another murder/shooting in which a charge of demon possession has raised its head. It’s too easy to speculate irresponsibly at this stage on something like that. I wonder why we are not hearing anything more about the medication he was reported to be taking daily, according to roommates. I would think it would be easy enough to find evidence in his dorm room.

Meanwhile, I would like to find out more about the One Mind Church and what if any connections it had to the prayer circle Cho’s sister attended. I wonder if any other pastor had the same belief about Cho and whether anyone else tried to help.
Also, this new information doesn’t sit too well with jihadi theories. I wonder if the freepers will find a new classification – Diablo-fascist, or some such thing…

(no offense intended to Christians, Muslims…. or Satanists or anyone else…)
Where is Charles Krauthammer when you need him?

V-Tech timeline/other contradictions, media framing, families contact law firm, 5/3

Update: Explanation of why he chose the 2nd floor of Norris – the only classrooms were there…

The rest of the building consisted of labs and offices.

It still doesn’t explain why he chose the engineering building rather where he had no classes and presumably didn’t know his way around as well. Maybe the entrances were easier to chain. See this comment:

Erin Sheehan, a survivor of the shootings in the German class, said “[Cho] peeked in twice, earlier in the lesson, like he was looking for someone, somebody, before he started shooting.” It seems likely that his peeking resulted in spotting the person he was looking for (since he then burst in and started shooting). This means, probably, that another part of the story lies with one of the students in this class. Most likely this student is dead, but there’s a chance he/she is among the wounded/unharmed.

And this (not so certain about its origin):

nytimes failed to report that the mother of Cho Seung-Hui took overdose drug and his father cut his wrists, as reported on chinese tv stations last nite
Update: this report expresses initial doubts about how he was shot….and how many died in the dorm (is that because both victims, Ryan and Emily, were not at the time dead or because initially police thought only person had been shot?)
Update: This account describes how police entered through a side door, since they couldn’t shoot through the chains to the maindoor. The side door had a deadbolt, and someone had to rush and find bolt cutters (the five minute delay?).

OK, my question – how come they didn’t know about the auditorium entrance that some employees used to escape? Or about the basement entrance through which the police escorted others? Also, the construction area was left open by the gunman, it seems. The report also suggests that the police had already decided that the first shooting was an intentional distraction by Cho, who was waiting outside the dorm for Emily and didn’t follow her upstairs (?? – what does that mean?), but apparently shot her inside (on the fourth floor?)….this part is not clear to me. (more here: Jesse Paul, 20, of Warrenton said a friend who lives in the dorm told him she heard an argument, then shots, then saw a man run past along a hallway.That means, he DID go up.

Update: What happened to the second gun in this account? Cho is reported to have been holding one gun with both hands, dressed all in black (no tan vest here). The account also indicates that the auditorium was one way that people could escape. It places the gun fire in the German classroom as roughly 20 minutess after the first email at 9: 26 and close to the 911 call at 9:45 (and, of course, before the second email at 9:50). That means, the gunfire in the German classroom could not have started at 9:46 (as the 911 was called in before that) but must have started a bit earlier at 9:40 – confirmed here (the student counts about 15 shots, which is what the Glock would fire).

The gunfire probably started even earlier, as the chances are that the student was just estimating the 20 minute time frame. That means the shooting likely went on from 9:40-9:55 at least which is 15 minutes, not 9.

Update: More on the timeline. This states that firing in the German class began around 9:50, and that the doors were chained AND padlocked, but that a construction area was open. SWAT teams came in by other means than the door..

Update: use of stun grenades, more confirmation of hesitation by police, and the audibility of the gun fire.This report also shows that students in Torgerson Hall nearby could hear the gun shots. Why didnt the police and administration at Burrus (next to Norris) hear them too?

Update: Further report that the police hesitated outside and used tear gas or something similar to clear the area..

Update: This account says that Cho came back to the classroom where he was found, came right to the survivor, and then walked to the front of the room. Two shots were hears by the survivor and then silence, then the sound of the cops bursting in and saying the shooter was down. Very suggestive.

Update: This report suggests the cops came out of nowhere.. which supports the video evidence that they were hiding around the building and did not immediately rush to break in, as they now argue. There is a description of a man with a machine gun and someone being tackled by the police as well in this account.

Update: The Queen’s visit to V Tech – early May. Also the UK Home Minister visited V Tech recently. He used to be a student.

Update: OK – this new report says that police have cleared Thornhill of connection to the murder.

Highly relevant to the issue of V Tech’s responsibility is that the college defeated a recent state attempt to end its gun free zone school policy. V Tech thus has even greater responsibility and needs to show much more proof that it actually did what it took to protect its students.

V Tech had a 55 man (corrected from 28) police team – no lack of officers. Yet there does not appear to have been an armed security guard near the dorm room. And how did the police verify that the campus was gun free – were there periodic checks or metal detectors around campus?

How did Cho leave the campus and return that morning, while carrying weapons – or did he leave the weapons elsewhere?

The Official Time Line:

This NY Times article is very interesting to me on several counts. It reports the official timeline of what happened on 4/16:

Cho gets to Ambler Johnston Hall a bit before 7 am; he kills his first 2 victims with the Glock 9 mm with two rounds; his second bout of killing (30 people) at Norris Hall takes 9 minutes. Police take 3 minutes to get to the building and 5 minutes to get inside.

Student Recollections:

Now, here is an earlier NY Times article from April 22. It’s not exhaustive, but it quotes what student reported happened at Norris Hall. I am not suggesting that what they descibe happen could not have taken in place in 9 minutes, but it is certainly a tight fit. This article also suggests a longer time period and indicates that the shots were more methodical, with pauses in between and that only one gun was used to fire.

Bear in mind that witness accounts are often contradictory and mistaken and an intense situation can, in recollection, seem to have taken much longer than it actually did.

Notice that Cho is described in the student accounts as walking up and down the halls (2, 3 minutes, at least), poking his head into a few classrooms and leaving without doing anything, firing with pauses in between, methodically breaking through doors that have been barricaded (should take a minute each), shooting, leaving and returning at least two classrooms (another minute or so each), standing over shot students and firing individually at each (at least a minute?) in at least two classrooms.. Although the students are trapped inside, they are running away or jumping through windows, so they are moving targets requiring him to aim and move too.

If he fired 170 (or 255, some say) rounds in Norris Hall, as we have learned, we can infer that he fired almost 18 rounds per minute or .3 per second or a round roughly every 3 seconds (I made a mistake earlier and transposed seconds and rounds). I am not a marksman, so I don’t know if that is likely or very difficult. If you also take into account that he was also reloading (as he is described doing) and sometimes not firing, he must have been firing an even higher number of rounds per minute than that most of the time. In any case, would that kind of continuous firing be described as hammering?

I am not sure, and again I don’t doubt the descriptions, I am simply evaluating what is being said.

Here is a report describing the shooter as masked, by the way.

Media Framing:

Now going back to the first article, reporting the official time line . It contains some criticism by other police officers of the 5 minute delay and the significance of this in increasing the number of those killed.

There is also discussion in the report (for the first time in the media) of the ‘active shooter’ paradigm I talked about in my earlier posts on this blog (the post on police response). However, notice that ‘active shooter’ is referenced only in terms of the five minute delay – as though that delay were the dispositive element in the whole tragedy, instead of the previous two hour delay.

What the focus on the time of entry does, of course, is to introduce into the public debate the Immediate Action Rapid Deployment paradigm (which is a new, more aggressive style of tackling such crises that was developed in the nineties and came into prominence after Columbine) but to do that without blaming either the administration or the police for the delay.

IARD is very much a part of the increasing erasure of the boundaries between wartime military actions and domestic policing. Increasingly, domestic crises will be described and tackled in military terms, and conversely, foreign military actions will be described as policing.

Here is how the alleged 5 minute delay is referenced in the article: ”This is a seminal moment for law enforcement as far as I’m concerned because it proves that minutes are critical,” runs a quote in the article.

Now, the 2 hour delay (between the shootings) is subtly being framed too. The V-Tech review panel appointed by Governor Kaine today introduced this meme: that shutting down the campus would not have helped, because the shooter could have gone back into his dorm and shot the 900 or so people who lived there.

“On Thursday, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine said that the massacre may not have been averted if the Virginia Tech campus had been locked down after the two shooting deaths at the dorm.

”Well, if the campus had been locked down — because the shooter lived on campus — I mean he could have gone into his dorm with 900 people instead of going into a classroom (and) he could have shot people there,” Kaine said in his monthly listener-question program on WRVA-AM and the Virginia News Network.”

My comment here is – surely this is a strawman? Locking down the campus was not the only option. They could also have made a PA announcement for students to lock themselves into their rooms or not enter campus. A siren could have gone off to alert people, not emails. There is also the matter of why, on a campus where the student population was disarmed by policy, there were no monitoring cameras or armed security guards near the dorms to stop the shooter in the first place. Or how Cho entered a dorm without a security card and why students were entering and leaving Ambler Johnston until 10 am (according to reports) after the shooting at 7:15. That sounds remarkably lax.

To add to this media framing of the timeline, notice this report on 4/27 in the NY Times about students standing behind the V-Tech President and administration on this matter. It contrasts strikingly with earlier reports about students vocally questioning the administration. It appears that this show of student confidence has emerged in reponse to strong alumni response.

“Johnson plans to present the university Board of Visitors on Thursday with an online petition with thousands of signatures of support for Steger and Flinchum.

Steger also received an endorsement from the governor.

”Charlie has been acting as a very, very good president,” Gov. Tim Kaine said this week. ”This kind of event could happen anywhere on any campus, and there has been an innocence taken away from the students. But the positive values, and academic tradition of this university will help the community stay strong, and keep this university attracting students.” (my emphasis).

I have addressed this kind of media framing at length in my writing. First, the media sensationalizes. This is what I call the pulp drama. They report excessively on human interest stories, personal accounts and so on.

Then, when administrative failures are being descibed, the focus shifts to broad questions of law and policy and everything is blamed on lack of proper policy or poor communication. Human error or neglience is minimized or overlooked. That tactic lets upper level officials escape scrutiny or blame.
Political Implications:

That’s exactly the MO that was followed in the media coverage of the torture debate. Questions about what actually happened were quickly framed out. The public debate became a debate about changing or adding to existing laws, and not looking at what top officials did.

In the case of V-Tech, notice how quickly the public debate moved toward advocating more federal laws, more regulation (gun control), and more militarization in the state’s response to any emergency. Of course, this fits in perfectly with the overall direction of the government’s policies.

(See James Bovard’s article on how new legislation has made the imposition of martial law much easier, from The American Conservative Magazine, posted earlier on this blog).

Difficulties with a Potential Lawsuit:

Letting the wider political debate take over also creates a problem for the victims.

Here is an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education about the possibility of a lawsuit being filed, in which lawyers suggest that the university may have shown gross negligence in this case. That report got little play from the major media, which gave much more coverage to the official response and has spent so much time on intrusive coverage of the human interest angle. And the lack of coverage actually creates a serious problem for the victim. Here’s how:

Victims have a limited time to press claims

Please note that under the doctrine of sovereign immunity which holds good in Virginia, it is quite hard to sue the state. Any plaintiff would have to establish a case of gross negligence – a higher standard than usual – and would have only 6 months to press claims. That means any stalling by the university (or its reported withholding of documents) materially helps it to avert a lawsuit by reducing the amount of time victims have to collect information and prepare a case.

It’s very likely that victims are also unaware of this fact.

From the point of view of the dead and injured, a prolonged official investigation, which the media covers uncritically is not only not helpful, but a potential difficulty as is distracts or complicates independent inquiry.

Uncritical acceptance of the administrations’ explanations end up doing further injustice to the victims of the shooting.

Wiki Time line:

  • Around 9:05 a.m. to 9:15 a.m.: Cho is seen in Norris Hall, an Engineering building. Using the chains he had purchased at Home Depot, Cho chains the building’s entry doors shut from the inside in order to stop anyone from escaping. [53][39]
  • 9:26 a.m.: E-mails go out to campus staff, faculty, and students informing them of the dormitory shooting.[54]

     


     

    A French class takes cover in Holden Hall / photo by William Chase Damiano

  • Around 9:30 am: A female student walks into Norris 211 and alerts the occupants that a shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston [10].
  • 9:42 a.m.: Students in the engineering building, Norris Hall, make a 9-1-1 emergency call to alert police that more shots have been fired. [55] [56] [57]
  • 9:45 a.m.: Police arrived three minutes later and found that Cho had chained all three entrances shut.[58]
  • Between 9:30 and 9:50 am: Using the .22 caliber Walther P22 and 9 millimeter Glock 19 handgun with 17 magazines of ammunition, Cho shoots 60 people, killing 30 of them. [39] Cho’s rampage lasts for approximately nine minutes [11]. A student in Room 205 noticed the time remaining in class shortly before the start of the shootings [12].
  • Around 9:40 a.m.: Students in Norris 205, while attending Haiyan Cheng’s [13] issues in scientific computing class, hear Cho’s gunshots. The students, including Zach Petkewicz, barricade the door and prevent Cho’s entry [14].
  • 9:50 a.m.: After arriving at Norris Hall, police took 5 minutes to assemble the proper team, clear the area and then break through the doors. [59] They use a shotgun to break through the chained entry doors. Investigators believe that the shotgun blast alerted the gunman to the arrival of the police.[39] The police hear gunshots as they enter the building. They follow the sounds to the second floor.
  • 9:50 a.m.: A second e-mail announcing: “A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows” is sent to all Virginia Tech email addresses. Loudspeakers broadcast a similar message.[56]
  • 9:51 a.m.: As the police reached the second floor, the gunshots stopped. Cho’s shooting spree in Norris Hall lasted 9 minutes. [60] Police officers discovered that after his second round of shooting the occupants of room 211 Norris, the gunman fatally shot himself in the temple. [15] [61]

The Original Time Line:

I still have some feelings that there was an accomplice or second gun man, who did the first killing and then helped with the second. If Cho wanted to massacre people, why not at Ambler Johnston? What, if any connection, has been shown between Hilscher’s boyfriend, who also frequented the fire range, and Cho? Is the boyfriend cleared in the first shooting? The last account on this post, from the LA times, has material related to these questions. Here is an Washington Post article from the 18th that shows that the boyfriend, Karl D. Thornhill, was not completely accurate in what he told police. Thornhill told them that his guns were at his parents’ house, but they were found elsewhere. My sense is that Thornhill indeed might have had something to do with the crime. He might, for instance, have helped Cho train at that firing range, without knowing what Cho planned. But we need more information to theorize any further. OK – this new report says that police have cleared Thornhill of connection to the murder.

Two points here interest me:

In an early account of the shootings, a student (see first post on this blog, Columbine in Virginia) noted that police entered Norris Hall at 10.32 AM.

The second point is that the original time line given by Virginia Tech showed that police took only a minute to break in, just after 9:45.

Both accounts seem very different from the latest account.

For comparison, here is the first time line put out by the administration, taken from Salem News archives:

Tragedy at Virginia Tech – [Original] Timeline of Events

7:15 AM

Virginia Tech Police Department (VT PD) receives a 911 call to respond to a dormitory room at West Ambler Johnston Residence Hall.

Within minutes, Virginia Tech Police and Virginia Tech Rescue Squad respond to find two gunshot victims, a male and a female, inside a dormitory room within the Hall. The residence hall was immediately secured by VT PD and students within the hall were notified and asked to remain in their rooms for their safety. VT PD immediately secured the room for evidence collection and began questioning dorm residents and identifying potential witnesses. In the preliminary stages of the investigation, it was believed the deaths were an isolated incident, domestic in nature.

Blacksburg Police Department were also on scene assisting VT PD with establishing a safety perimeter around the residence hall and securing Washington Street.

7:30 AM Investigators were following up on leads concerning a person of interest in relation to the double homicide. Investigators from VT PD and Blacksburg PD were actively following up on various leads.

8:25 AM

Virginia Tech Leadership Team, which includes the university president, executive vice president, and provost, assembled to begin assessing the developing situation at the residence hall and determining a means of notifying students of the homicide.

9:00 AM

Leadership Team was briefed on the situation by VT PD Chief W.R. Flechum [sic – his real name is Flinchum] on the latest developments in the ongoing investigation at the residence hall.

9:26 AM

The Virginia Tech community – all faculty and students – were notified by e-mail of the homicide investigation and scene at West Ambler Johnston Residence Hall, and asked to report any suspicious activity to. The Virginia Tech Emergency/Weather Line recordings were also transmitted and a broadcast telephone message was made to campus phones. A press release was drafted and posted on the Virginia Tech Website.

9:45 AM The VT PD received a 911 call of a shooting at Norris Hall, which contains faculty offices, classrooms and laboratories. VT PD and Blacksburg PD immediately responded to Norris Hall. Notice in leadership command center via our police rep of a shooting in Norris.

Upon arrival to Norris Hall, the officers found the front doors barricaded. Within a minute the officers breached the doors, which had been chained shut from the inside.

Once inside the building, the officers heard gunshots. They followed the succession of gunshots to the second floor. Just as the officers reached the second floor, the gunshots stopped.

The officers discovered the gunman, who had taken his own life. There was never any engagement between the responding officers and the gunman.

9:55 AM

By the same means as prior notice, Virginia Tech notified campus community of the second murder scene. Other notifications followed via other means.

*****************************************************

Salem-News.com will have more on this story as soon as it becomes available.

And here is CNN with an account from students:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At about 7:15 this morning, a 911 call came to the university police department concerning an event in West Ambler Johnston Hall. There were multiple shooting victims.

O’BRIEN: Matt Lewis and Matt Green of the campus EMT service were on duty. Their unit was one of the first on the scene.

MATT LEWIS, VIRGINIA TECH CAMPUS EMT: Well, the first call came out for a patient who had fallen out of a loft. And once they got on scene, they noticed that there were two patients with gunshot wounds.

O’BRIEN (on camera): At point, can you tell us if the victim was alive?

LEWIS: Both patients were at that time.

O’BRIEN (voice-over): Police began sweeping the dormitory. The gunman was still on the loose.

WENDELL FLINCHUM, VIRGINIA TECH POLICE CHIEF: It was an isolated event to that building and the decision was made not to cancel classes at that time.

O’BRIEN: Classes had been disrupted three days earlier after a bomb threat, but this time, no false alarm. The shooting left two students dead: 19-year-old Emily Hilscher, a freshman majoring in animal and poultry sciences, and 22-year-old Ryan Clark. His friends called him Stack. He was a resident adviser and played in the marching band. As an R.A., his job was to look at students and his friends speculate he may have been caught in the crossfire.

SHADIE TANIOUS, FRIEND: As an R.A., and a good person, he apparently was going to break up an argument or something like that and wrong place, wrong time. That’s kind of hard to think about.

O’BRIEN: At first, police believe the shooting was a domestic dispute, a romance gone horribly wrong. Their chief suspect, Emily’s boyfriend, Carl Thornhill who attended college nearby and was said to own guns. Investigators related all this to university administrators. By then, morning classes were underway, and Virginia Tech president Charles Steger saw no need to cancel them.

CHARLES STEGER, PRESIDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: The situation was characterized as being confined to that dormitory room. We thought we had it under control.

O’BRIEN: Thornhill would be held all day then released. So students and faculty weren’t told about the shootings. It was business as usual. Engineering student, Ryan Brody, had to be at work at 9:00 a.m.

RYAN BRODIE, ENGINEERING STUDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: I woke up and checked my e-mails because of the bomb threats that we had Friday and the buildings were being closed. So I checked the website and checked the e-mail and there was nothing in there. So I went to work.

O’BRIEN: Leslie Mel’s morning wasn’t off to a good start.

LESLIE MEL, STUDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: That morning I didn’t hear my alarm go off so I overslept.

O’BRIEN: And Laura Massey who lives off campus was facing an unusually chilly spring day.

LAURA MASSEY, STUDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: My roommate and I drive to campus. It was cold and we didn’t want to walk in the cold, so we decided to take the bus.

CLINT GRIFFON, STUDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: From even inside your room, you could hear it. Almost like in the movies, you know, you can tell something bad is going to happen.

O’BRIEN: Reama Samah (ph) and Erin Peterson (ph) bundled up and walked to class.

(on camera): Friends say that at about ten minutes of 9:00, Erin Peterson (ph) and Reama Samaha (ph) would be making their way out of their dorm room straight through this tunnel and off to French class in Norris Hall. The two are friends. They went to high school together and lived next door to each other in the dorm. And the fastest way to class was straight across the drill field.

(voice-over): 9:26 a.m., more than two hours after the shooting, a campus-wide e-mail was finally sent out notifying students and faculty. The e-mail urged caution, told students to call police with anything suspicious. But Reama (ph) and Erin (ph) French class was already under way. Was it too little too late?

STEGER: I don’t think anyone could have predicted that another event was going to take place.

O’BRIEN: But it did. By 9:46, there’s a hail of gunfire in Norris Hall. Coming up, the killer strikes again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O’BRIEN (voice-over): 9:45 a.m., more gunshots are heard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many shots do you exactly recall hearing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was at least 30 to 40.

O’BRIEN: This time the shots came from Norris Hall Engineering Building.

(on camera): The very first pictures we see come from right here where people are now diving behind these pillars to stay safe. Up on the second floor you could hear the gunfire. People are scrambling inside to get out any way they can. Those who try to get down the stairs discovered chained doors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right after we got that e-mail, we heard five shots from campus. And we could hear the emergency speaker system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an emergency, this is an emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we all got down underneath the desks and moved away from the windows.

O’BRIEN: More images of the shooting captured by two Swedish exchange students who had just arrived the night before.

9:50 a.m., the university sends a second campus-wide e-mail warning of a gunman on the loose. Units from three police departments rush to Norris Hall.

NICK MALCO, WITNESSED SHOOTING: And we hear this loud sound out in the hallway. It was just bang, bang, bang, bang out in the hallway and you don’t really recognize what it is at all. It’s just kind out of place on campus.

ERIN SHEEHAN, WITNESSED SHOOTING: He just stepped in five feet from the door and started firing. He seemed very thorough about it.

MALCO: Not five, 10 seconds later, he tried to come into our room and tried to shove the door open. And at that point, we were like, OK, this is very, very serious, and he shot the door twice. We heard him reload outside and shot the door again and then just continued on.

O’BRIEN: 10:17, a third e-mail, this time ordering a campus lockdown.

BRODIE: They told us to stay inside. The gunman is on the loose on campus. He’s still at large and to stay in any buildings, or wherever you are, stay away from doors and windows, to try to keep everybody safe and to keep him from being attracted to other buildings.

REBECCA MACDANIEL, STUDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: They locked all of us in the bookstore and kept us in the center of the bookstore.

STEGER: Upon arrival to Norris, the officers found the front doors barricaded. Within a minute, the officers breached the doors which had been chained shut from the inside. Once inside the building, the officers heard gunshots. They followed the succession of gunshots to the second floor. Just as officers reached the second floor, the gunshots stopped. The officers discovered the gunman who had taken his own life.

O’BRIEN: Police discovered the gruesome crime scene, students and faculty, dead, in four classrooms and in a stairway. The wounded were carried outside to emergency medical teams.

SARAH WALKER, EMT: There were five very seriously injured people in front of me and they needed to get out and they were my priority.

O’BRIEN: One of the injured was Emily Haas. Two bullets grazed her head.

EMILY HAAS, SHOOTING VICTIM: When I got hit, I felt it, and I didn’t know if I was hurt, if I was shot, and I did try to keep really still and hoping that he would think I was already dead.

O’BRIEN: 12:22 p.m., university officials announce the campus was secured. But still the enormity of the tragedy was still not clear.

From the LA Times, an account of what happened:

April 18, 2007

As community mourns dead, details of gunman’s rampage, background emerge. A dark day: Sequence of events paints tragic picture

BLACKSBURG, Va. — It was still dark at 5:30 a.m. when Karan Grewal bumped into his roommate in the bathroom of their suite in Virginia Tech’s Harper Hall. Grewal had been up all night studying, but he knew better than to grumble to Cho Sueng-Hui.

None of the guys in the suite talked to Cho. They had tried, at first, but Cho never answered; he rarely responded even to a simple, “Hi.” His roommates figured he didn’t speak much English.

On this blustery Monday, Cho was in boxer shorts and a T-shirt, getting ready for the day. Grewal, 21, washed up and went back to his bedroom to get some rest. He fell asleep about 7 a.m.

Twelve hours later, police would come knocking.

The first shots

The 911 call came in at 7:15 a.m.: Gunshots at a college dorm.

Campus police rushed to West Ambler Johnston Hall, a century-old stone building on the east side of the expansive campus. On the fourth floor, officers found two bodies.

There was no weapon and no sign of the gunman. There was also little panic. Several of the nearly 900 students in the co-ed dorm said they slept through the gunfire. Some noticed police outside; a few heard ambulance sirens. But many went about their morning as usual, bundling in warm clothes as they headed off to class in the swirling snow.

Heather Haugh, who had been off campus for the weekend, walked up to the dorm shortly before 7:30 a.m. She was planning to meet her roommate, Emily Hilscher, so they could walk to chemistry class together. But police pulled her aside at the door.

Investigators told Haugh, 18, that her roommate had been shot. They began asking about Hilscher’s romances. Haugh told them what she knew: Her roommate had spent the weekend on another college campus with her boyfriend, Karl Thornhill.

The police asked about guns; Haugh told them Thornhill recently had taken both girls to a shooting range for fun. She told police she believed he kept the weapons at his home in Blacksburg.

Though Haugh described her roommate as having “a perfect relationship with her boyfriend,” investigators suspected the shooting was prompted by a lovers’ quarrel. They relayed their theory to university administrators at an 8:25 a.m. meeting. By then, classes were under way, and President Charles W. Steger saw no need to cancel them. “We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur,” he said.

Investigators, meanwhile, had pulled Thornhill over as he was driving off campus. He raised their suspicion at once by contradicting Haugh’s account. His guns were not at his home, he said; he had taken them to his parents’ house in Boston, Va., about 370 miles away. He also denied that he and Hilscher had spent the weekend at Longwood University in Farmville, about 140 miles from Blacksburg.

Campus Police Det. Stephanie Henley requested a search warrant for a residence believed to be linked to Thornhill. She was looking, she wrote, for “firearms, ammunition, bloody clothing … ”

Authorities are as yet unwilling to clear Thornhill; he “remains a person of interest,” according to the state police superintendent, Col. Steven Flaherty.

But Flaherty also said it’s “reasonable to assume” that Cho committed the murders at Ambler Johnston Hall. Why he might have targeted that dorm, that room, is murky. There’s no evidence that he knew Hilscher. He was a 23-year-old English major, a taciturn loner; she was an upbeat 19-year-old studying animal sciences, so close to her family, she called her mom every day.

If Cho had planned a massacre, he had ample opportunity to shoot other victims; the dorm was filled with sleeping students. But only one other student, 22-year-old senior Ryan Clark, was shot in the dorm, known as AJ. Then the gunman fled.

Nearly 21/2 hours later, Cho turned up in Norris Hall, a science and engineering building a half-mile from AJ. ….

Cho bought a Glock 9 mm pistol here for $535, 30 rounds (other reports say 50?) of ammunition included…………

As required by law, he presented identification: A Virginia driver’s license, checks that matched the address on the license and a federal immigration card to prove he’s a legal U.S. resident. He passed a background check and left the store with his gun.
*********
At the end of the semester, Giovanni gave him an A- not for talent or effort, but because she feared angering him.
“I think he liked the idea that he was a scary guy,” Giovanni said…………..

…. Ian MacFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site. He said he and other students “were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter.”

His five roommates found him hard to read. He worked out in the gym. He downloaded music. Other than that, they could identify few of his habits, except that he sometimes just sat in his room, staring vacantly ahead.

Norris Hall rampage

The shootings inside Norris Hall unfolded in fragments of sounds.

The clank of an empty ammunition clip falling to the floor. A scream. A siren. The scrape of a desk being pushed to barricade a classroom door.

And the shots, an unrelenting staccato. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang.

It started about 9:40 a.m., about 15 minutes after campus administrators sent a brief e-mail to all students and staff titled: “Shooting on campus.” The e-mail made note of “a shooting incident” in the AJ dorm and urged everyone “to be cautious.” But it raised no specific alarm.

The students in Herr Bishop’s German class, in Room 207, didn’t feel particularly concerned when a young man poked his head into their classroom. He took a look and left.

Moments later, he was back.

He shot the professor, Christopher James Bishop, in the head. Students screamed and hid under desks; Cho kept shooting. He said nothing. (LR: early account says he said “Hello, how are you?”) He did not appear to be looking for anyone in particular. He just fired and fired again.

***************
At 9:45 a.m., police responded to a 911 call from Norris Hall. Officers found the front doors blockaded. A second e-mail went out to students and staff: “A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows.”

Police began blaring warnings over loudspeakers: (Should have been done at 7:15) This is an emergency. Take shelter. Resident advisers went door to door in the dorms, pounding on walls, yelling at students to stay in their rooms — or in some cases, to come down to a common area where they could wait out the lockdown together.

The scene outside Norris was chaotic. Within moments of arriving, heavily armed officers had broken through the chained doors (LR – New reports say they took 5 minutes) and stormed up the stairs, following the sound of gunshots. Law-enforcement personnel lined the street outside, carrying rifles and assault weapons.

They screamed at any student who wandered close: “Get back! Get back!”

But from outside, the terror was not obvious. Chris Hinkel, 18, heard the bang-bang-bang and assumed the noise had something to do with the construction work going on nearby. “Nobody,” he said, “was as worried as they should’ve been.”

Students, escorted by officers, began fleeing Norris Hall, hands in the air. An ambulance was pulled up to the sidewalk and a still body, strapped to a gurney, was loaded.

Finally secure

The scale of the tragedy would not emerge for several hours.

At 10:16 a.m., students and staff got a third e-mail telling them that classes had been canceled. “Those on campus are asked to remain where they are, lock their doors and stay away from windows.”

At 10:52, a fourth e-mail described “multiple shooting with victims in Norris Hall.” Again, everyone was asked to stay inside.

It was not until shortly after 1 p.m. that Campus Police Chief Wendell R. Flinchum made this announcement: “We believe campus is secure.” Slowly, students came out of their rooms.

Some went to Norris Hall. The sidewalk outside was stained with blood. Others headed to counseling sessions held inside the AJ dorm. ROTC cadets gathered to pray at the War Memorial Chapel, on the vast green field at the heart of campus.

At 7 p.m., law-enforcement officers rapped on the door of Harper Hall 2121. (LR: Seems very late to get to Cho)

They went into Cho’s bedroom and began packing his belongings into brown bags.

According to the search warrant, police were seeking, “tools, documents, computer hardware … weapons, ammunition, explosives … instructional manuals for criminal acts of mass destruction and acts of terror.”

The police spent five hours examining Cho’s room and interviewing roommates. When they left at midnight, they told Grewal that Cho was suspected in the mass shooting. He had been found dead in Norris Hall, apparently of a self-inflicted wound, the guns at his side, a receipt for one still in his backpack.

 

 

V-Tech: Cho – Important early conflicts in reports- 5/1

I am trying to keep track of early reporting.

Update: This article from April 17th night (the day after)

talks about the NY Times and Washington Post reporting on two notes – one next to the body and one in the dorm, but also says that the police so far have found no suicide note – after they just went through the dorm. Now, of course, there is a suicide note, only it’s not entirely sure where it was found. That’s besides the bomb threat note next to Cho. Quite the author. Video clips, photos, web posting, manifestos, 1 or more bomb threat notes, 8-page confessional, a suicide note…

Here is the most significant divergence I can find. Chen is the Chinese student whose interview seems to have been the source of the early report that the gunman had been shot in the back of the head which had blown apart his face and also of the report that the first killing had been sparked by jealousy. Here there is also Steger’s comment that two gunmen had been involved and that the two incidents were unrelated.

Here is a blog post that suggests evidence for a second shooter. The evidence that is cited could be interpreted otherwise. Some of the discrepancies are likely due to confusion. The only parts that are strong are the alleged statement of the last survivor in the room that the shooter ran away, the nature of the wounds Cho received (not confirmed), differences observed between the video Cho and the photo we have, the tightness of the schedule of events that day, and a statement that Cho was seen with 3 Americans in the days preceding (no confirming report). Also the killer was not descibed having a backpack. whereas Cho’s was found in the hall. This is easily explained. Cho simply put his book bag down before shooting. This Richmond Times article also contradicts the theory as it states that Cho was shot in the temple. Here is another report. This also describes a single shot to the head that left the face unrecognizable. But it says nothing about Cho bringing a book bag, whereas this one says he had a ruck sack with knives and the ammo as well as chains I suppose. Another report also contends that he did not have books with him. I don’t know if this was just the reporter’s inference or whether it was based on an eyewitness account.

In any case, Cho did not seem to have classes in Norris. The Richmond Times account also describes Cho having had two speeding tickets (not one, as later reports have stated) and photographing the women’s basketball team (he was reportedly an avid basketball player). It also describes his routine in the previous days — that he had been getting up earlier and earlier. I am not sure if it is Grewal who pulled the all-nighter that Sunday or Cho. Cho is descibed as taking his usual medication in the bathroom, though what medication is not specified. He is also described elsewhere as applying acne medicine. We learn from the report that according to the time stamp on the video, parts of it were shot (probably in his room) at around 7: 45 just after the shooting. Yet, his roommates do no recall him remembering to Harper. The packet was received at the post office just after 9 and he entered Norris at 9:15 it seems.

At this point, it just seems like the usual confusion when a story breaks, but I am keeping note of the changes.

1. Cho was first reported as being Chinese and here is a report that he was 6 ft and in a boy scout outfit – tan vest and black jacket. No book bag carried. This report also says 6 ft. Cho was actually 5 ft. 8″ – much smaller. That could be confusion of course.Here’s an article in the Chicago Sun Times with hat information. This is reportedly the google cache of the original story which is now off the web. It appears to have caused a flurry in the Chinese media and some speculation on how or why the mistake was made. There is also a theory that I saw posted on a Korean blog, which includes more details of the crime scene, and speculates that Cho was killed himself and had an accomplice. It says he was killed with 1 shot to the back of the head and 2 to the chest (haven’t seen this elsewhere), that the real killer was 6 ft and was seen running away (that is supported by other early reports that describe 2 shooters either running away or being apprehended. It also compares Columbine where 3 guns, 2 shooters and 900 bullets were involved in the death of 13 people and notes Cho’s remarkable performance as incompatible with what we know of his firearm skill.

2. He was first reported as having had a relationship with Emily Hilscher, later denied.

3. There was also the early report about his obsession with Counterstrike, subsequently denied by a suite mate.

4. A report on the package – clarifies what the number 43 referred to – the photos. 28 (or 29) seems to be the number of the video clips.

It contained an 1,800-word diatribe and 43 photos, 11 of them showing Cho aiming handguns at the camera. He also sent 28 video clips.

5. Cho described in later reports as laughing after each shot…but early witness reports that he was impassive.

6. The chains with which he locked three entrances to Norris Hall (the number was from later reports) are not from Home Depot has reported.

7. I haven’t seen any correction of the reporting of this as the worst school shooting, which it is not.

8. This is a report of the second time CIA recruiters visited the campus in 2005, Nov 16. Students were planning a teach in to protest the visit because of the news of the CIA torture policies just then published in the Washington Post (including the outsourcing of torture). No evidence linking Cho to the visit or the teach in though. Cho’s behavior however had been sullen and/or mean prior to the recruitment visit, from the testimony of teachers that fall.

Just in case, it’s pulled, here it is:

CIA recruiting at Virginia Tech

The Truth Will Set You Free
Tuesday April 17, 2007

“The single shooter was unusally effective at killing, almost as if he had been trained to do so.” –mparent7777

From November 2005 . . .
For the second time this year, the Central Intelligence Agency will be coming to Virginia Tech to recruit students.

And for the second time this year, they will be met with protests from students who view the CIA as an immoral organization that engages in torture and murder.

Nicholas Kiersey organized a protest last spring when the CIA came to campus. He released the following statement Monday about the CIA’s trip to Torgeson 3100 Thursday at 7 p.m.:

“Blacksburg, VA November 13, 2005 – A coalition of concerned graduate students and campus organizations at Virginia Tech are this Thursday staging a ‘teach in’ to protest CIA recruitment on campus. Planned events also include the protest of a ‘career information’ session to be held by the CIA later that evening.

On November 2nd, 2005 the Washington Post published an article entitled “CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons”. The article reported that the CIA has set up a covert network of secret prisons and interrogation centers, known as “black sites”, in several countries around the world, including several democracies in Eastern Europe and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Prisoners at these facilities are held indefinitely and often in isolation, without due process of the law. Moreover, CIA interrogators working at these sites are permitted to use the CIA’s approved “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques,” some of which are prohibited by the U.N. convention and by U.S. military law. Among the tactics approved for use are “waterboarding”, intended to induce in prisoners the idea that they are drowning.

While intelligence officials defend the unrestricted operation of these sites as necessary for the successful defense of the country, it should be noted that both the sites and the suspected practices carried out at them would be illegal if operated within the USA, which is a signatory to the U.N. Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. Importantly, the same is true for the democratic host states in Eastern Europe where some of these sites are located.

The ‘Teach In’ will take place on Thursday, Nov. 17, 5-6.30pm, in Torgerson 3100. The event will feature talks by Virginia Tech instructors and the presentation of a draft letter to President Steger’s office, signed by a number of concerned Virginia Tech faculty and students.

The letter will request that Virginia Tech place a moratorium on all CIA activities on Virginia Tech’s campus until such time as a thorough and independent investigation certifies that the organization has been thoroughly reformed and no longer engages in practices that contravene international law and basic standards of human rights.

The CIA’s scheduled ‘career information’ session will take place at 7pm in the same location.

Sponsoring campus organizations include: The International Club and Amnesty International at Virginia Tech.”

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of the creative writing program at Virginia Tech, taught Cho in a poetry class in fall of 2005 and later worked with him one-on-one after she became concerned about his behavior and themes in his writings.

Roy spoke outside her home Tuesday afternoon, saying that there was nothing explicit in Cho’s writings, but that threats were there under the surface.

Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed “extraordinarily lonely–the loneliest person I have ever met in my life.” She said he wore sunglasses indoors, with a cap pulled low over his eyes. He whispered, took 20 seconds to answer questions, and took cellphone pictures of her in class. Roy said she was concerned for her safety when she met with him.”

Note that Cho accordint to this never spoke above whispers..many of his suite mates had never heard him speak. He is said to have had a form of autism or speech impediment. But yet, he spoke clearly on the videotape and the psychologist made no mention on his evaluation of a speech problem.

Here are the plays that Cho wrote in ?? that were posted

One play attributed to him, called “Richard McBeef,” describes a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia, and ends with the boy’s death.

In another, called “Mr. Brownstone,” three high-school students face an abusive teacher.

“I wanna kill him,” says one character.

“I wanna watch him bleed like the way he made us kids bleed,” says another.

The two plays were posted on AOL after a staffer named Ian MacFarlane, a December 2006 graduate of Virginia Tech, brought them to his editors’ attention.

MacFarlane said he was in a class with Cho in which students were required to post their plays online for peer review and comment.” ( so that places the plays also in the fall of 2005)

My Comment: If something caused this much rage (assuming this is not just imagination or fantasy at work)

why were Cho’s earlier creative efforts (he must have taken creative writing in high school or something earlier in college) not filled with stuff like this? Could the triggering event have occurred in 2005?

Under Virginia law, state residents can only buy one handgun in any 30-day period, suggesting Cho bought his second weapon after April 13 or sometime over the weekend.

“He clearly spent some time figuring out how he was going to take care of business once classes began on Monday morning,” said Garrett.

The date of the first gun purchase will likely serve as the time of “some triggering mechanism that was very important” to Cho said Garrett, an expert on profiling murderers. http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/massacre_gun_57.html

http://blogs.roanoke.com/campuswatch/archives/cia_recruiting.html

Also, information that Cho’s uncle was a contractor to the state department.

More contradictions in the archives of the Salem news
http://salem-news.com/articles/april162007/shooting_update_41607.php

Here’s the original explanation:

When he was asked why students weren’t alerted to the imminent danger from a man with a gun, he said, “They had reason to believe the shooter had left the campus.”

Now, they say, the campus was too big, they were afraid people would run into the shooter and what if he had gone into his dorm room anyway.

Sadly, many of the students failed to see the email and as a consequence, walked into the gunman’s line of fire. Many are saying that the school should have closed immediately, and that they were far from prepared for this kind of a situation. That, in spite of a shooting on the campus on the first day of the school year and the recent bomb threats.

These are the emails that were sent to student from the University:

E-MAIL 1
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:26 AM
To: Multiple recipients
Subject: Shooting on campus.

A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning.

Police are on the scene and are investigating.

The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case. Contact Virginia Tech Police at XXX – XXXX

Stay attuned to the www.vt.edu. We will post as soon as we have more information.

E-MAIL 2
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients
Subject: PLease stay put

A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows

Subject: PLease stay put

A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows

E-MAIL 3
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Multiple recipients
Subject: All Classes Canceled; Stay where you are

Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where there are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus.

E-MAIL 4
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:53 AM
To: Multiple recipients
Subject: Second Shooting Reported; Police have one gunman in custody

In addition to an earlier shooting today in West Ambler Johnston, there has been a multiple shooting with multiple victims in Norris Hall.

Police and EMS are on the scene.

Police have one shooter in custody and as part of routine police procedure, they continue to search for a second shooter.

All people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice.

All entrances to campus are closed.

They first thought it was Morva:

Media outlets are reporting the name of the accused gunman as William Morva. Again, there are conflicting reports at this time, but most indicate that the gunman is dead.

Cho – new details: security, shooter theories, psych profile, updated 5/2

Update: Apparently he fired 225 rounds altogether, according to this report:

Cho fired as many as 225 shots in rampage

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Cho SeungHui fired off as many as 225 shots as he gunned down 30 students and faculty on the campus of Virginia Tech before turning the gun on himself, a law enforcement source told CNN Friday.

That figure is based on the number of bullets and the 17 empty ammunition magazines found at Norris Hall, the source said.

Another law enforcement source familiar with the investigation said most of the victims were shot at least three times. A doctor who treated some of the survivors Monday said they also had multiple gunshot wounds, and no one had less than three. –From CNN’s Deb Feyerick and Kevin Bohn (Posted 2:08 p.m.)

Update: There is an ABC report, May 2, saying that a note was left after the first shooting at Ambler Johnston. This gets really confusing. Are they talking about the 8 page note said to be in his backpack or found in his room, depending on which report you read? Or is this something new? Puzzled.

Update: 45 hits (dead and injured) according to some, 61 according to Wiki -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_victims_of_the_Virginia_Tech_massacre

OK….each victim was hit at least 3 times, so that’s 135 hits…and maybe more, say 150, out of 170 rounds fired, which is a very high hit rate. If we use wiki’s figure, that’s 183…out of 170!

Have to check when that report about 255 rounds came out .Is that old? Unsubstantiated? A new version to make the whole thing make sense? No idea right now.

 

Wiki’s description of Cho before high school makes him sound very normal; it’s even positive:

Cho studied at Poplar Tree Elementary School in Chantilly, an unincorporated section of Fairfax County. According to Kim Gyeong-won, Cho’s friend in elementary school for three years (and currently a student of Seoul’s Kyung Hee University), Cho finished the school’s three-year program in one and a half years. Cho was noted for being good at mathematics and English, and teachers pointed to him as an example for other students.[18]

Kim met Cho in fifth grade, attending the same classes and riding the school bus together. There were only three Korean students in the school.[19] Back then, he said, nobody hated Cho and he “was recognised by friends as a boy of knowledge… a good dresser who was popular with the girls.” Cho kept a distance from others because he chose to do so. Kim added that “I only have good memories about him.”[18][19]

 

In an interview with WSLS News Channel 10 in Roanoke, Chastity Frye told the station she was hired by Cho for an hour of services.“He was so quiet, I really couldn’t get much from him, he was so distant,” said Frye. “It seemed like he wasn’t all there.” In relation to this, I want to note that there were also reports that Cho had been interested in a college mate and then had complained that he saw “promoscuities” in her eyes.

Others have speculated about Cho’s isolation, pointing out that V Tech was renowned for the beauty of the young women who studied there and that the taciturn, moroseCho might have felt acutely isolated. Cho was actually a Math A student in high school who switched to English. Others have suggested that Cho was a narcissist whose complete self-abosrption , grandiosity and lack of empathy led him to avenge his own failings on others. They point out the exhibitionism displayed in the methodical nature of the killings, the exibitionism in the videos, the dress-up aspect of it – cutting his hair close and working out in the weeks before, as well as discarding his gold rimmed glasses.

This post suggests schizophrenia, associated with the children of parents who work as dry-cleaners, and caused by chemicals used in their work.

Here he is described as having conversations with himself and having stopped coming to class for a month before the killing. Doesn’t anyone keep track of attendance?

One blog post theorizes that Cho could not have been the killer, because of the nature of the gunshots that killed him. The poat also notes the early descriptions of a killer fleeing the building and of someone who was 6 ft doing the shooting.

There was no one who actually witnessed him killing himself as everone in the room (except one person) was dead in the classroom in which Cho’s body was found. That story is repeated in this account too.

Now, this report states that the police heard the last shot just as they climbed to the second floor. They didn’t say they actually aw him do it.
Another interesting fact is reported in this article which suggests that Cho might have been of Japanese origin (??? doesn’t look Japanese to me, but I know nothing about the area) and that he might be one of a group of children (maybe it means Korean children) kidnapped and trained to harass adults. Need to learn more about this.

And this:

A school official points to the name of Cho Seung-Hui, the gunman in the Virginia Tech shootings in Blacksburg, Va., in a school record at the Shinchang Elemetary School that Cho attended for first grade and half of second grade in Seoul, South Korea, Wednesday, April 18, 2007. Cho‘s family had struggled while living in South Korea and emigrated to the U.S. to seek a better life, a newspaper reported Wednesday. The Korean words read ” Immigrate to oversea, Cho Seung-Hui.”

I am not certain if this next post is authentic, but, in it apparently the gun-owner who sold the Glock to Cho says that the ATF ( Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms) indicated to him that they would keep the information about the receipt (not clear) low-key. (Warning: not clear about this thread’s authenticity)

A Washington Post report describes the killer as impassive and in blue jeans and blue jacket (later he was laughing and wearing all black):

“The shooter, whose name was not released last night, wore bluejeans, a blue jacket and a vest holding ammunition, witnesses said. He carried a 9mm semiautomatic and a .22-caliber handgun, both with the serial numbers obliterated, federal law enforcement officials said. Witnesses described the shooter as a young man of Asian descent — a silent killer who was calm and showed no expression as he pursued and shot his victims. He killed himself as police closed in.”
By the way, the media is mistaken in calling this the biggest school killing. The most prolific school killer is Andrew Kehoe (45 people) in the Bath School disaster, three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, USA, on May 18, 1927.

This report talks about the number of rounds: 170 rounds were fired in 9 minutes. His body was found in a classroom with his victims. That time frame sounds incredible to me, although I hear that the Glock is capable of it.
More on Security:

Here, for comparison, is the security routine that is actually practiced on most campuses. V- Tech, despite its prior experiences, seems to be quite lax:

Boise State is actively patrolled by campus security officers, law enforcement officers and parking services personnel. The Boise Police Department is physically located on campus with a dispatch center that monitors alarms and then sends security and police officers to incidents on campus.
We are assigned six police officers plus one lieutenant exclusively. There are 38 emergency blue light phones on campus that have a direct line to the Boise police substation.

 

In the residence halls, there are on-site professional staff members 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There are two security officers assigned exclusively to the residence halls. All doors require electronic card access to open.

 

Boise State operates a department of public safety. Campus security is very active in crime prevention. For example, Boise State offers an emergency cell phone program, online crime reporting services and an Ask-A-Cop program among other safety initiatives.

 

*******************

 

Now here are some timelines/explanations I’ve gathered:
This report details early explanations given by by the school.

And this has an early description of the shootings.

Monday, April 16th 2007 12:23PM
Virginia Tech police have confirmed 22 fatalities resulting from the campus shootings today. The gunman has also been confirmed dead.

Three people were escorted out of Norris Hall by police. The three were handcuffed, separated, questioned, unhandcuffed and then canine teams were sent into Norris Hall said junior computer engineer Nick Saunders who watched the events unfold from the the second floor of Randolph Hall.

According to the university, classes have been cancelled for Tuesday, April 17.

Monday, April 16th 2007 11:57AM
Three people were escorted out of Norris Hall in handcuffs by police. The three were then unhandcuffed and canine teams were sent into Norris Hall.
http://collegemedia.com/

Further details:

An Arlington County consulting firm that evaluated the emergency response to the 1999 Columbine High School shootings and other public safety crises has been hired by state officials to assist the panel that will investigate the Virginia Tech massacre.

TriData Corp. will provide staff and research support to the eight-member panel named last week by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D). Kaine, in Northern Virginia yesterday for a community meeting with the South Korean ambassador, met privately with Philip S. Schaenman, TriData’s president. Schaenman said the contract terms are being worked out.

A division of defense contractor System Planning Corp., TriData is best known for studying fire safety issues. But it also conducted a study for the Federal Emergency Management Agency on police and emergency medical response to the shootings at Columbine, in which two students killed 15, including themselves, at the Colorado school. The report pointed out problems with communications and management of the disaster scene.

The firm was retained by Virginia officials to review the chaotic response to a false positive anthrax test at the Pentagon’s remote mail facility and a similar alarm at Defense Department sites in Fairfax County in March 2005.

Again the firm concluded that poor communication and unclear chains of command hampered coordination between federal officials and local jurisdictions.Schaenman told a congressional committee that the response was “the homeland security version of the fog of war.”

ABC made an interesting gaffe related to whether the Feds actually have a data base of all drugs:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=2

“Some news accounts have suggested that Cho had a history of antidepressant use, but senior federal officials tell ABC News that they can find no record of him in the governments files on controlled substances. This does not completely rule out prescription drug use, including samples from a physician, drugs obtained through illegal Internet sources, or a gap in computer databases, but the sources say theirs is a reasonably complete search.

(NOTE: Some readers may have inferred from an earlier edition of this story that the federal government keeps a comprehensive record of all prescriptions. The Drug Enforcement Agency says it does track prescriptions of so-called controlled substances — including some mood-altering medications — but not all prescriptions made in the United States.)

More details:

Sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall, the site of the second shooting that left 31 dead, were also found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed to ABC News.

One neighbor, Marshall Main, describes Cho’s parents as quiet and polite. Neither Main nor another neighbor recalled seeing the son in recent years.

Mask and speech mentioned in early report of killer’s demeanor

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=nw20070418093520510C653345

By The Associated Press

BLACKSBURG, Va. — A shooting at a Virginia Tech dorm Monday left one person dead and one wounded, a state government official with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press.

A government official with knowledge of the shooting said the gunman had been arrested. [emphasis added]

The state university said on its Web site that a shooting had occurred at a residence hall and that students should stay in their homes away from windows.

“There’s just a lot of commotion. It’s hard to tell exactly what’s going on,” said student Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the building where the shooting took place.

The shooting was reported at West Ambler Johnston Hall.

Officials ordered the campus closed, the second time in less than a year the 26,000-student campus was shut because of a shooting.

In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff’s deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.

The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

Cho suspected his Taiwanese girlfriend of seeing another man and had a row with her in the West Ambler Johnston Residence Hall, a co-ed dormitory in the sprawling campus of the university Monday morning. When a residentadvisor came to resolve the problem between the two students, Cho shot him. He then shot the girl.

University police, who came to West Ambler in response to an emergency call, told inmates of the dormitory to stay inside and started investigations.

Cho reported as smiling in early reports:

According to one witness, “he shot every person thrice” with a smile on his face. G.V. Loganathan, the 51-year-old Indian origin professor of civil and environmental engineering, was taking a class when Cho shot him in his head.

According to reports, also killed was Minal Panchal, a 26-year-old female Indian student who was attending Loganathan’s class.

http://www.drudge.com/news/93413/cho-seung-hui-spoke-class-monday

In recent weeks his routine had changed. His roommates say he went to the campus gym at night, lifting weights to bulk up. He went for a haircut — surprising them by coming back to the room with a military-style buzz cut.

Aust and another roommate, Karan Grewal, say they were aware that Cho had pursued women on campus. They said he also seemed to have an imaginary girlfriend, a supermodel named “Jelly.” ”

Uh-oh. Cho was sneakin’ around with Sick Willy’s main squeeze, Jelly.

Think her initials are K Y.?

And that military buzz cut. That’s a dead give away. All atheist Buddhist mass murderers have those, if you will notice.

Delay in reporting deaths:

Ross Alammedine

Mass. man slain in Virginia Tech massacre mourned in Saugus

by jay lindsay / associated press writer

> email this to a friend

APR 17, 2007 10:10 PM EDT

SAUGUS, Mass. (AP) — When the computers went down at Austin Preparatory School, there was no need to call the technicians if Ross Alameddine was around.

Alameddine was a well-known a computer whiz, fixing problems so quickly that teachers didn’t bother with the IT guys. He also sold computers during a summer job at a mall a few miles from his Saugus house.

On Tuesday, the drapes at that house were drawn as his family mourned the 20-year-old Alameddine’s death at the hands of a senior who killed 32 in a mass murder at the Virginia Tech campus, before turning the gun on himself.

A few feet from the door of his Saugus home, a police cruiser was parked around midday to keep the media away and help the family deal with their grief in private.

“I’m just trying to get through the day here,” said Alameddine’s mother, Lynnette, said earlier Tuesday.

Stunned friends and former teachers remembered Alameddine not only for his smarts in a range of subjects, from math to foreign languages, but also for his dry wit and ironic sense of humor.

“We’re very sad that he’s gone,” said David Boschetto, a math teacher at Austin Prep, the private school in Reading where Alameddine’s sister also attended. “It was very, very shocking to me and the rest of his teachers … He was just a wonderful kid.”

The sophomore was in French class at the Blacksburg, Va., school on Monday when Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old, moved between classrooms, indiscriminately shooting at students in morning classes.

Lynnette Alameddine didn’t find out her son was one of the victims until more than 12 hours later, which she called “outrageous.”

“It happened in the morning and I did not hear (about her son’s death) until a quarter to 11 at night,” she said. “That was outrageous. Two kids died, and then they shoot a whole bunch of them, including my son.”

At Best Buy in Saugus, store manager Rich Stoney followed the news of the shootings because he knew his summer worker Alameddine went to Virginia Tech. He was devastated to learn the young employee was among the dead.

Stoney said Alameddine was fun-loving, good-humored and had a great touch with customers because he was able to relate his “exceptional” computer skills to the average person.

“There’s not enough good things to say about that kid,” Stoney said.

Classmate Katherine Williams said Alameddine was known in the tight Austin Prep community as a genial kid who was ready to lend a hand with homework, if needed.

Later in his high school career, Alameddine developed at interest in drama, and performed in the school’s production of the Agatha Christie play, “The Mousetrap.”

His interest in gaming was seen in a March post on a blog about Guild Wars, an online role-playing game.

At a facebook.com tribute, friends recalled Alameddine as “extraordinarily witty and sarcastic, strong willed and a grammar god far superior to all of us.”

At the Web site, some longtime classmates wrote about their days in school withAlameddine, dating back to St. Mary’s elementary and middle school in Melrose. They recalled everything from his “crazy legs” on the dance floor to where he sat in French class.

Some expressed their grief with poems and others, like a student from Bridgewater State College, kept the goodbyes simple. He wrote, “rest easy ross.”

——

 

 

V-Tech: Oddities – Photo of 30 bullets, Cho suicide note, updated 4/26 AM

This article from the Sidney Morning Herald draws attention to something that also puzzles me. Granted that Cho trained at a firing range (and also possibly through video games, although this is controversial and possibly mistaken) and may have been at it for a long time for all we know, still, how could he have figured he was going to shoot 30 people and then actually go and kill 30 people (in the second killing)?

Did he practice some kind of autohypnosis, taking the photo and then dwelling on the image to “psych” himself into doing it? It’s possible. Certainly, visualization is a very important part of peak performance training in many areas for a good reason; it works.

But then, if he was really able to shoot that accurately (the reports say he was firing from close range and missing a lot, as well), why not be completely accurate; why not 32 bullets for his 32 victims?

Could this be interpreted to mean that he only focused on the second killing not the first? Or only committed the second?
Could there still be a chance that there was another killer involved, as well (- which the police themselves haven’t entirely ruled out)? Theories will abound. We still need a lot more.

Another point: I found this early report saying no suicide note had been left. This is two days after the killing. That’s clearly wrong, since the suicide note was reported quite early on, although its location has never been made clear. That might be understandable. There was a lot of confusion at the crime scene.
The suicide note was reported in one account to have been in the room. Now I hear it was found either in the back pack found in the hall of Norris Hall OR in the room.

Another point is made in this quote:

“Along with 23 short videos of himself, Cho included a well-produced but rambling 1800-word manuscript, replete with 80 photographs, including some of him brandishing weapons and dressed as he was on Monday when he murdered 32 students before killing himself.”

Comment: So – the 43 photos mentioned in other reports must just be the photos that NBC has decided to release. That means they have more. Wonder why they have been withheld.

I would understand if they’re holding back to minimize copycat shootings or to protect the the victims, with which I would fully agree. But, of course, they were willing to release the other pictures, so I doubt that’s the reason. Maybe there is inflammatory material or things that need to be private so the investigation isn’t jeopardised.

Or – here’s a thought. Maybe, the photos (if they exist) are just more of the same; but withholding them allows them to create nebulous suspicions, on both sides of the political aisle.

Final Point:

Another quote from the same article:

“In it, Cho, 23, also makes a chilling reference to the “martyrs Eric and Dylan.”

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were responsible for the Columbine High School shooting in 1999, when 12 students and a teacher were killed before they turned the guns on themselves.”

My Comment:

Notice the jihadi-type of language – “martyrs.” Of course this language (what with all the Osama videos we’ve seen in the past few years) is part of the zeitgeist in which Cho grew up. This could be nothing more than that cultural baggage. To counterbalance that, here’s the actual language from this report:

He wrote (apologies for quoting offensive material): “Now that you have gone on a 9/11 on my life like (expletive deleted) Osama. Now that you have (expeletive deleted) your own people like (expletive deleted) Kim Jong-Il. Now that you have gone on a hummer safari on my life like (expeletive deleted) Bush? Are you happy now?”

My Comment:

Sounds more like a diatribe…he’s not exactly endorsing Osama or Kim Il Jong; he also identified himself with the crucified Christ, but that won’t stop the bloggers.
In one sense, it doesn’t really matter how you interpret the evidence. Just the fact of speculating and being anxious or uncertain creates a kind of trauma in the mind. That ‘s a technique that is extensively researched and used in specific acts of coercion and mental torture. And propaganda against foreign populations. What may be less understood is how it is used in propaganda against the domestic population.

Update: here’s a link to my post on the new, declassified IG’s report on the involvement of psychologists in framing torture techniques, and inferentially, torture  policy. 

Oddities in Cho’s Psychiatric Confinement

Here is a Salon piece by Bonnie Goldstein with the relevant documents. I had posted it last night, with detailed commentary and then deleted it this morning – darn!

So – here goes again:

First, the Salon piece:

In December 2005, two undergraduate women at Virginia Tech complained about inappropriate messages they’d received from fellow student Cho Seung-Hui. A licensed social worker, Kathy Godbey, assessed Cho’s behavior and petitioned a Virginia magistrate for Cho’s “involuntary admission” to a mental-health facility (see below). The magistrate found “probable cause” to believe the young man was “mentally ill and in need of hospitalization” and issued a temporary detention order.

Cho was taken to the Carilion Saint Albans Behavioral Health facility in New River Valley, Va. Using the four-page involuntary admission form provided by Virginia’s Department of Mental Health, Mental Retardation and Substance Abuse Services, psychologist Roy Crouse observed that, although the patient’s affect was “flat” and his mood “depressed,” he “denie[d] suicidal ideations” (see Page 3). Crouse (a Ph.D., though not a physician as state law requires) wrote that Cho did not “acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder.” Cho’s “insight and judgment [were] normal.” Also noted in the exam: Cho had no previous psychiatric care and was not on medication.

The patient exercised his right to counsel by court-appointed attorney Terry W. Teel (see Page 2), and his case was considered and decided by Special Justice and Guardian Ad Litem Paul M. Barnett. Justice Barnett found that although Cho presented “an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness,” there were suitable “alternatives to involuntary hospitalization” available. Cho was ordered instead to get outpatient treatments (see Page 5). No record has been found to confirm whether Cho, who killed 32 people and himself on April 16, ever sought or received the court-ordered treatment.

Also, in this regard, here is what we know about the possibility that he was taking drugs:

“Some news accounts have suggested that Cho had a history of antidepressant use, but senior federal officials tell ABC News that they can find no record of him in the governments files on controlled substances. This does not completely rule out prescription drug use, including samples from a physician, drugs obtained through illegal Internet sources, or a gap in computer databases, but the sources say theirs is a reasonably complete search. (NOTE: Some readers may have inferred from an earlier edition of this story that the federal government keeps a comprehensive record of all prescriptions. The Drug Enforcement Agency says it does track prescriptions of so-called controlled substances — including some mood-altering medications — but not all prescriptions made in the United States.)”

My Analysis:

1. It looks like Cho was never seen at any point in all this by a medical MD.

2. He was assessed by a licensed social worker, a magistrate, a special justice and guardian ad litem, and a PhD psychologist whose evaluation of his mental state ranged from finding him mentally ill and a threat to society and finding him largely normal and just depressed.

3. He clearly was not evaluated for any extended length of time – hardly a day at best.

4. No records were retained (perhaps not even kept) of his subsequent treatment.

5. No one followed up or monitored his treatment, or if they did, we have no records of it now.

6. No one informed the university or his parents. The argument is that privacy laws prevented the health system from doing so.
7. Cho went voluntarily to the police, and they referred him which posed a problem under Virginia law, since, as I said the Chris Wallace post, the form that Virginia courts use to notify the state police about a mental health disqualification only addresses the state criteria, which lists two potential categories that would warrant notification to the state police – someone who was “involuntarily committed” or ruled mentally “incapacitated,” neither of which ended up applying to Cho.

So, the problem was that Cho went “voluntarily” and wasn’t ruled incapacitated. From my earlier post:
“But didn’t anyone realize the potential danger here. OK. the two V-Tech students didn’t press stalking charges, but what happened to the arson charge? How does that not pose a threat to anyone else? Didn’t any of the teachers, like Nikki Giovanni, who found him so intimidating in class, want to find out where he was with his treatment?

Here’s a comment from one of the students (I think he was in Edward Falco’s class):

Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn’t pressure him to give closing comments.

After hearing about the mass shootings, I sent one of my friends a Facebook message asking him if he knew anything about Seung Cho and if he could have been involved. He replied: “dude that’s EXACTLY what I was thinking! No, I haven’t heard anything, but seriously, that was the first thing I thought when I heard he was Asian.”

While I “knew” Cho, I always wished there was something I could do for him, but I couldn’t think of anything. As far as notifying authorities, there isn’t (to my knowledge) any system set up that lets people say “Hey! This guy has some issues! Maybe you should look into this guy!” If there were, I definitely would have tried to get the kid some help. I think that could have had a good chance of averting yesterday’s tragedy more than anything.”

So, as I argued from the beginning, there is a clear case of negligence here, and indeed that is what experts are saying now:

“So here was a man who was actively intimidating other students and who had inappropriately and repeatedly photographed and contacted female students. His own suite mates say he was a stalker. That the university did not suspend Cho for such violations makes a solid case for negligence.

In a rational legal system, the school would be held accountable for its errors. But Virginia Tech is a state institution, and Virginia is a state where the doctrine of sovereign immunity remains quite robust. That doctrine, a relic of English common law, essentially says the state can do no wrong because the state creates the law and thus cannot be subject to it. Many states have relaxed sovereign immunity and made it possible for victims of, say, botched operations to sue state hospitals. But Krauss of George Mason University says the Virginia Tech victims’ families would probably have to seek an exception to sovereign immunity from the Supreme Court of Virginia in order to sue the school.

There’s a simpler way: Steger, the university president, should stop withholding documents on how the university mishandled Cho and take responsibility for his school’s lax approach. And then he should resign.”

VTech – Questions about damage inflicted by handguns

This interview , apparently with a Florida U. criminologist, is on You Tube and is posted on numerous websites and blogs:

“Charles Mesloh, Professor of Criminology at Florida Gulf Coast University, told NBC 2 News that he was shocked Cho could have killed 32 people with two handguns absent expert training. Mesloh immediately assumed that Cho must have used a shotgun or an assault rifle.”

I don’t know enough myself to assess this statement. Needs more research.

But here is more from another Time article which suggests the same:”Cho’s extraordinary killing effectiveness suggests someone who was trained, or who trained himself, in “execution-style” killing, according to the federal source”

There is a picture circulating on Liberty Forum (and also on other sites and blogs) of what is said to be Cho in a US marine uniform. The picture was apparently uploaded to wiki and then pulled. There is some debate about that.

Looking at it myself, I have no idea whether one of those young men portrayed in it is Cho. It could be, but I am declining to post it, as I have no way of knowing whether it is accurate, a mistake, or a hoax.

In any case, VTech, like many campuses around the country, probably had recruiters onsite. Cho’s sister worked in Iraq construction and he was – from what we have heard so far – an intelligent enough person.

The picture is fuelling the military psyop argument right now.

I will be on the look out for confirmation of this from other sources.

Meanwhile, explaining it a different way, John Markell, the owner of the gunshop which sold the Glock (but not the Walther) to Cho, argues that Cho probably purchased several magazines:

“The Glock 19 is sold with two magazines, each capable of holding 15 rounds, double-stacked to make a compact clip not much bigger than a harmonica. Judging by the number of fatalities and wounded — most of whom reportedly were shot more than once — Cho may have fired a hundred or more rounds. Loading magazines is a slow business, so Markell figures that Cho must have acquired several more magazines and more ammunition from some other source.”

The Glock was also easy to conceal, being very small, which explains how he got away with it:

“As it turned out, the Glock 19 was perfect for Cho’s deadly purpose. The gun is just 6.85 inches long and 5 inches wide, according to a Glock website, and thus easily concealed. A vest with several pockets can hold a number of compact 15-round magazines that fit a Glock 19. Cho surely knew that in cold weather a mass murderer could carry an arsenal on his back and in his pockets, and there would be no way to detect him, short of metal detectors at every entrance to every classroom building and dorm.”